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1




Black Panther has set a precedent for not only the genre in general but for the MCU themselves to in terms of representation. The DCEU so far has done it's part well in giving POCs strong and empowering roles, with accurate representation; a few examples are-
1) Will Smith, Deadshot
2) Viola Davis, Amanda Waller
3) Jason Momoa, Aquaman
4) Karen Fukuhara, Katana
5) Laurence Fishburne, Perry White
6) Jay Hernandez, El Diablo
7) Harry Lennix, General Swanwick
8) Ann Ogbomo, Anne Wolfe and several other Amazons
Marvel has done very little in this regard, leading up to 10 years we've had no other strong character except Nick Fury (and Col. Rhodes to an extent). Minority characters such as those played by Michael Peña were played for comedic stereotype. The biggest slap in the face would be the blatant whitewashing of the entire Doctor Strange cast (except manservant Benedict Wong). A Captain Marvel movie way too late and done as a kneejerk reaction to Wonder Woman because Marvel thinks women don't sell. Yes, this was Fiege's actual response to why the idea of a female villain to Iron Man 3 was ditched: "because female toys don't sell". People like Ike Perlmutter in their brain trust reflect this sort of thinking.

2

Black panther looks refreshing to me straight up. Its sticking to its story roots i believe.


3

"black best friend"
So true. They had such an opportunity for Falcon, yet they turned him into just a Captain America fanboy and eventual nobody. Black Panther was, in a way, his own man, and his father (Dr. John Kani - what a legend, I just saw an interview where Dr Kani spoke about how they asked him if he would do the role, and he insisted on seeing the script before he would make a decision!).
I think that the DCEU really needs a film with a black lead, perhaps Green Lantern with John Stewart. That would be nice.

4

Yes, besides Wakanda there is a definite shortage of African characters. In the DCU there are hardly any :\ The last was Freedom Beast in Animal Man.

5



What I want to see is if it turns into another "Coming to America". Black Panther was about the intrigues back home in Wakanda as much as it was about the rest of the world.

6

I agree on casting mostly. But I feel what they need is a more grassroots effort for diverse characters; then there will be no need for hunting or changing race.

7

Honestly, I don't know enough about the Marvel comics to know whether the MCU is afflicted with withewashing or not, except for the Ancient One because it made a bit of noise. But, as many others pointed out before me, DC seems to have avoided the obstacle so far.
The real question is more deeply rooted: as you pointed out, most well-known superheroes are represented as white. Are we okay with having their appearances changed to allow more diversity? Or are we too attached to the characters to have changes such as the color of the skin? Does it actually change the characters if they're not Caucasian anymore? And is the film industry ready to take the risk and try? ~ no ideeeeaaa.

8

Didn't watch the film yet, but from his name he's Middle Eastern. That's also an issue - they skip the whole of India, Singapore, Vietnam, Korea, China. We get Islamic countries, and then Japan. Nothing in between.

9

LOL I like your idea smile

10

Great honest response. I guess these DC people will have to find some courage somewhere and take risks and see what happens. I can bet you, however, if they make an effort to respect other peoples' cultures, that the films will be a hit in the rest of the world. Not sure about America, though :\


11

Well im not well versed in the black panther lore, but isn't Wakanda like the most richest and advanced technological city on the planet. Like how Asgard refers to Thor, would Wakanda be treated the same for black panther?

12

It is quite advanced, especially if you read the Marvel Knights Black Panther by Priest (what an author). But there was a whole lot of intrigue going on in that country as well. I guess what I meant is I hope that the film is about both countries, and not just mainly about America.

13

El Diablo and Deadshot stole the show in Suicide Squad, in my opinion. Harley was good, but third place.

14

Problem is many biggest characters were created in time when they can be only white. So studios need to popularize less known characters or take 2nd-3rd-4th-.... iteration when PoC is wearing popular mask (example: John Stewart as Green Lanter).

15

Absolutely. There's definitely scope there, e.g. Blue Beetle, Steel's niece, etc. Although don't get me started on overdone alternate sexuality... yeeesh.

16

Yeah i get what your saying, well maybe the movie will travel back and forth from both. Im just trying to figure out the timeline of this movie, pre-civil war or after? Because isn't cap and bucky hiding out in Wakanda?


17

Someone from the MCU explained that in Doctor Strange they decided that in the comics (especially the early issues of Doctor Strange) the Ancient One is actually kind of a racist stereotype. So they felt they had to change it.
I didn't buy that answer, because they could easily have cast an Asian for the role and simply fixed what made it stereotypical in the comics. Update it, respectfully to the culture!
I suspect that the real reason was they were looking for the approval of the Chinese market, and the white female who wasn't originally from Tibet somehow got them that. Oddly enough Tilda Swinton is one of the only things in that film that I enjoyed. I was against her casting (make the character Asian for crying out loud). But not surprisingly she did a great job with the role.

18

It's not as idyllic as our football team all the time, but we're trying our best! ^^

19



That's all anyone can ask. Great conversation, thank you smile

20

To be honest DCU in general has been more progressive than the MCU in giving that respect to that, I know each person has played their support character, but in reality the MCU has an extremely short list of other than white characters in their movies, live action or animated. Even before everyone was on the anti white washing bandwagon, DC has had many cartoons and animated movies with these sought after characters
One major thing I must say is that for people on the anti whitewashing hollywood boards, when they see movies like this or changes like that, they tend to overlook the underlying fact that these people aren't funding any of this because they are fans they are funding it to make money
Changing the character in doctor strange is the most obvious, China is a big market, to you out there who think its cowardly, try losing almost 60% of your paycheck after you've worked for your 40 hours and tell me how you feel then
And then as a fan imagine if you lived in a country where they won't play a movie based on the fact that they just don't like 1 character, out of hundreds or thousands of moving part this country refuses to play it, because 1 person is off, and then the company wont change the character because your fellow fans are against changing it, if you still think the change is cowardly your selfish too, forgetting that they are millions of people there who will pay their money to see the movie but can't because they don't like the character
Take Wonder Woman for example, they don't like Gal's heritage so they won't play it in Lebanon, funny enough, they are ok with the Geek originated warrior but not ok with the Israeli actress, If I have to explain why this is a contradiction you really don't know about history and wars
There is logical sense and the money sense
Blackpanther cast being black makes sense but more so money sense, because it will make a lot of money, otherwise if they dont do it as such the movie will be boycotted and make them only have probably china as a source for income, if they wanted to wash it for example, one way to make a BP movie and not use a large black cast is to put him somewhere else, like in america with the avengers, in space, in europe, there are several types of things for this that helps but they wont for the sake of money
Strange makes money sense for obvious reasons as I explained
A Falcon movie makes no sense because he wasn't a very strong character in the movies, even tho comic wise he's awesome
Luke Cage could have a movie but Netflix have that
Green lantern could have one, because it easy to pawn off first movie and movie on
Blackbolt could if they work it right, using Static shock
Cyborg could but he's more on teams than not, (in the wider comic market)
Aqualad could too, if they bring back Young Justice and make it work
There are many things to do with that because most of DC's heroes of this type are and have been seen more on TV and  animated movies than for Marvel

21

To be honest DCU in general has been more progressive than the MCU in giving that respect to that, I know each person has played their support character, but in reality the MCU has an extremely short list of other than white characters in their movies, live action or animated. Even before everyone was on the anti white washing bandwagon, DC has had many cartoons and animated movies with these sought after characters
One major thing I must say is that for people on the anti whitewashing hollywood boards, when they see movies like this or changes like that, they tend to overlook the underlying fact that these people aren't funding any of this because they are fans they are funding it to make money
Changing the character in doctor strange is the most obvious, China is a big market, to you out there who think its cowardly, try losing almost 60% of your paycheck after you've worked for your 40 hours and tell me how you feel then
And then as a fan imagine if you lived in a country where they won't play a movie based on the fact that they just don't like 1 character, out of hundreds or thousands of moving part this country refuses to play it, because 1 person is off, and then the company wont change the character because your fellow fans are against changing it, if you still think the change is cowardly your selfish too, forgetting that they are millions of people there who will pay their money to see the movie but can't because they don't like the character
Take Wonder Woman for example, they don't like Gal's heritage so they won't play it in Lebanon, funny enough, they are ok with the Geek originated warrior but not ok with the Israeli actress, If I have to explain why this is a contradiction you really don't know about history and wars
There is logical sense and the money sense
Blackpanther cast being black makes sense but more so money sense, because it will make a lot of money, otherwise if they dont do it as such the movie will be boycotted and make them only have probably china as a source for income, if they wanted to wash it for example, one way to make a BP movie and not use a large black cast is to put him somewhere else, like in america with the avengers, in space, in europe, there are several types of things for this that helps but they wont for the sake of money
Strange makes money sense for obvious reasons as I explained
A Falcon movie makes no sense because he wasn't a very strong character in the movies, even tho comic wise he's awesome
Luke Cage could have a movie but Netflix have that
Green lantern could have one, because it easy to pawn off first movie and movie on
Blackbolt could if they work it right, using Static shock
Cyborg could but he's more on teams than not, (in the wider comic market)
Aqualad could too, if they bring back Young Justice and make it work
There are many things to do with that because most of DC's heroes of this type are and have been seen more on TV and  animated movies than for Marvel

22

Interesting, I thought they were going for Apache, that what all the things I've seen point to

23

No he actually gave us the name of the comic character he's playing Johnny Cloud.
https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

24

I see your points. Just some clarification of my post.
When I said Indian sub-continent it includes countries like Nepal, Tibet, Pakistan, Bangladesh, around India. Tibet was invaded by China because they wanted the land and wanted to control the Dalai Lama. Also, Tibet, Nepal, and India are all host to the Himalayas, which is where the Ancient One is from. Nobody said where he was from exactly, but since he had Chinese-sounding people around him, he was probably more from Nepal/Tibet. But! Nepal/Tibet has a long history of mystical seekers. Therefore it makes perfect sense that the Ancient One would be from there. No need to make him a white person and steal away all that cultural history that the people of the region have.
With regards to "The Ring", I never watched it, and haven't watched horror films for about 10 years now. The reason I said imperial history is because that is very close to the hearts of the Japanese. Some random horror film - not so much. Also, with Gods of Egypt, the Egyptians were quite upset.

25

With regards to Ghostbusters, actually Dan Aykroyd loved the film, he just said that the director refused to do things that were suggested to him and wasted money. I also thought it was quite okay, but I can see how people would have been hurt as it's quite different from the original.
I agree with your points. However the reason I spoke about Dr Strange and The Ancient One is because I am Indian and the topic is close to my heart.

26

I heard it wasn't supposed to be a reboot but slight continuation and they ignored it and went another route,
I feel you pain with the Ancient One, in actuality they could have reshoot something for that person, but in terms of disney and china, they got them in the pocket like a prison ho, look up what happened with Pirates of the Caribbean, the took out all of  Chow Yun-fat, he is chinese and they had his parts removed

27

The Ancient One is from a fictional Tibetan village I forget the name and I'm not so sure that the world sees Tibet or that region as a part of India like that, sure I get that those places are apart of the subcontinent, however, when shown the "boarders" are involved, but I get the feeling of not wanting to lose that, however,  to you it may seem like they are stealing away from the culture of people, but have you even heard of The Ancient One before this movie? there was nothing necessarily stolen but the ethnicity and race of the character itself, if they wanted to really kill it they would have change every dynamic of the character including their surroundings and clothing,
.
.
Honestly they could have literally just gotten any of like 10 countries in that region to play the character, they went out of their way to go to Nepal so why not
.
The issue with Gods of Egypt is quite simply, because its a new movie trying to create an Egypt setting, using anyone other than a cast of that type is wrong, that was a weak move and easy to fight because the company isn't as strong in that realm of race and then it was a whole cast 
.
And the Horror film may random to you but not to the people who's been with the director and writer, just as you feel a lost connection to a fictional american made character, so do some of these people with the movies , only difference here is that these , movies were literally taken from their library and changed, and it's not just The Ring it's several other movies, whether horror or otherwise, I just choose the Ring as it was one of the more famous at its time and made fun of too in gag movies... there is list really
.
My main point is to pointing out the flaws in trying to boycott these movies, it's ok if it's Disney but someone else and they are going to pay for everything......
.
on one hand The Ancient was replaced and no one boycotted the movie because it's Disney, its their character, they literally own all rights to, in reality this is weak ground to protest one because its a fictinal character, and most arguments are to just use the Tibetan person, well what about some from literally any other region, I haven't seen that argument yet, in media that is or protest
.
on another hand you have Gods of Egypt, original story? maybe, however the main characters are and do have a origins form a specific part of the world where there is documented knowledge of these beings, there is no way around this at all, it takes place in a fictional time sure, but everything about it is almost word for word an Egyptian tale
.
I get the point of wanting someone like you to play a major role in a movie, no doubt in that, I am with you 1000% there,
.
However, there is no means to an end in this case, it's not like by making money they are going to finally get the one up on china and make it right, with GoE they can fix that easily, it's just a matter of reshooting the scenes and getting a new cast
all of this is about sponsors and what they want, even when making decisions they can pull it at anytime
.
With china specifically, they have disney in the pocket, Chow Yun-fat is chinese and got removed from Pirates of the Caribbean just because he probably rubbed some senator or whatever they call them, the wrong way, I probably won't be able to travel to china just because I posted this lol
.
But seriously you just can't let them get away with doing this, if you feel slighted make a petition and boycott but make sure the alternative to what you want makes sense,
Like the Ancient could have been literally any other Asian person and still work better than the white woman
or( I know people wont really do this) don't boycott Black Panther, the movie about an African King, living in a closed off African kingdom, that is self supportive of its African people, for not having diverse characters, when the story literally say no one other than the people who already lived there lives there, other than a few others mixed in

28

They complained that's she should have been played by an American actress and that there wasn't enough stars on the costume

29

Unbelievable.

30

They are also Fox News sooo....

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