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Forum Oi! → Cinema & TV → [OPINION] Carol Danvers...Why her?

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1

The movie will succeed or fail on its own merits.  I would love a Kamala Khan, Monica Rambeau, or Phylla-Vell movie, and I hope this movie is a good story that's fun for me to watch.
I didn't expect an Avengers movie to happen, or be any good.  The folks running the MCU are doing more than I thought was possible.

2

Doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to see it. Why?
Because Marvel have twisted her from a powerful and sexy take no guff person, into an Ivy League lesbian political demagogue more interested in shoving politics down other characters (and the readers) throats than actually fight Supervillains. (this is especially egregious in Civil War II where she and Tony came to a head for extremely contrived reasons).
and you can see this, even in the way they draw the character. Twenty, Ten, or even Five, years ago it was perfectly acceptable for a female character to show some thigh, and have a feminine name. But because of the current political climate at Marvel, it's taboo to even have a female character show even the slightest bit of skin because of the 'straight male gaze' (Whatever the hell that even means anymore), Marvel is ashamed  to even acknowledge her as Ms. Marvel, despite the fact that she was a much better character before she became butch Ivy League lesbian captain Marvel to appeal to the 'girl power' market.
www.paperdroids.com/...
Not to mention, the movie is going to be called CAPTAIN Marvel. Not Ms. Marvel, CAPTAIN Marvel. Which to me is worrysome, are they going to use the characters run AFTER she gave up the Ms.Marvel name to Kamala Khan (who much like her predecessor is also a mouthpiece for SJW politics)? Doesn't bode well.

3

I think they wanted to have a female Captain America. I mean MCU Steve has been embraced as a good old american symbol of truth and justice and Captain Marvel the young blonde blue eyed military trained woman could easily be made to fit this mold. She even stole his Winter Soldier haircut. This seems more evident when you notice that the US ski team is being sponsored by marvel and their ski suits are Captain America for the boys and Captain Marvel for the girls. She probably seemed the easiest to make into a strong female character that's just as relevant as the boys. I also think they cast Brie Larson because she's pretty but not distractingly so, she isn't too skinny so it wouldn't piss of feminists but she isn't unfit either. It seems like the safest approach to making a strong female character. I also think they cast a new actress so that they could schedule the movie a bit behind wonder woman to see how wonder woman turns out and probably to avoid the stink of a possible failure.

4

The MCU isn't marvel comics, the movies aren't the comics. The MCU tends to shy away from anything too political, notice how the argument if security and collateral damage in civil war was unresolved and the movie turned into Captain America: Finding Bucky. Wonder Woman also has some pretty badly written overly feminist border line manhating comics in her past but the DCEU still handled the movie pretty well and made a really good movie.

5

The vocal dislike for her is something of a minority as her sales allow her to keep going and even put her front and forward in one large event with a face in a secondary front for the current large event.
What'll happen is Carol will probably see a big shift or complete invigoration similar to how Guardians of the Galaxy turned out for Marvel, who could barely carry a comic.  Or even Iron Man who was big in Marvel (with a lot of hate since it wasn't too long after Civil War) and is now one of the more celebrated heroes of comic book films.
Iron Man is a pretty apt comparison because prior to his movie?  He had almost no recognition to the greater public and launched during a time when comic films were on shifty grounds unlike today where people will go and see a comic book movie just to see one.
But most hate for her has come up only real recently.  While some stalwarts of the "old ways," or the odd person who believes she's being made in the image of cultural decay, most complaints about her haven't really started to pop up until just around last year during Civil War II.

6

I would rather see an X-men origins Storm movie than this one.

7

If it's anything like the only other X-Men Origins movie?  I wouldn't.
Granted, I'd probably pay to see both films.  Even if the XMO turns out to be as bad as Wolverine.

8

Oh shoot, I completely forgot to answer the last question.
Danvers is probably Marvel's best chance for a female led movie given their options.  Black Widow has sort of had her chance and I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed.  Captain Marvel has that brashness, open chance for a bit of levity, and that punch up fun factor that characters like Wasp would not have.
And Marvel, like DC, doesn't exactly have a huge stable of females who work well outside of comics.  I doubt anybody could turn Moondragon, Sersi, or the current Quasar into marketable movies since there's too much of a departure.
Ms. Marvel -could- work, but a lot of her charm is basically an appeal and restoration to the more Silver Age feeling of comics that Spider-Man was born of.  I don't see her as a full movie, but a show or animated short series would be perfect for her.

9

Um actually I hear she has had a lot of books cancelled, been relaunched several times. Marvel just keeps pushing her because they think if they force her on us we will accept her. Her sales aren't doing well at all and Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) frequently outsells her. Plus marvels sales as a hole aren't doing too good.

10

The comics are 'testing grounds' for the movies. It may not happen right away, but make no mistake the condition of the comics likely reflects the future of the movies.

11

She's actually done pretty well sales wise.  In recent times, her series gets cancelled like every other series does with Marvel:  Big Event Breaks.
Ms. Marvel definitely outsells her and has even outsold the odd Flash or GotG comic here and there.  Heck, she's even outsold a Batman comic in recent memory.  But both exist in the 20 something thousand range per month Marvel is okay with for their more expansion titles.  So CM isn't exactly doing poorly.  A big indicator of her popularity in Marvel is actually how much time she spends in other series and how important she tends to be in other series' backgrounds.

12

I think Carol is a good choice. She's the Captain Marvel this generation is most familiar with, and she's an interesting character. Plus, she has cosmic level powers, and I think they wanted a heavy hitter.

13

So.....you're not going to watch it because Carol Danvers has opinions and you can't see her thighs anymore? Gotcha....

14

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

15

Carol Danvers is a badass.

16

She-Hulk would be good too.

17

I'm not sure about that. Otherwise we would have a black spiderman and female thor in the MCU right now.   In fairness, Wonderwoman became a huge feminist, SJW later on. The DCEU made her more badass than she ever was in the comics, especially lately.
I'd say give it a chance.  The MCU is not Marvel Comics, Geoff has a good head on his shoulders. I can see Danvers being an edgy, brash, beatem up type in the MCU.

18

Meant to add her and I forgot.
She'd actually work wonderfully, but I get the feeling that Marvel is going to angle CM as a big figure for Phase 4.

19

Agreed, I think She-Hulk should be introduced after the original Avengers retire (maybe as part of the New Avengers).  Just so people don't associate her with Banner as much.

20

Carol has been selling below 18k with its current third issue according to Diamond.  Ms. Marvel is barely above 20k with its 17th as of April.  Flash #20 sold over 50k, Flash # 21 sold over 100k for its special cover and 60k for its normal.  Both of the main Green Lantern books are double shipping and selling over 30k.

21

I am not so sure about making her a female Cap being the original intention.  She always looked like Marvel's clumsy attempt to replicate the success of Wonder Woman.  They were pushing her as Ms. Marvel since before the first Civil War, long before the cosplay crowd latched onto her Captain Marvel costume.

22

Apparently they are going to not use the comic book origin.  It makes me wonder why bother using her unless they really like hot blondes in the MCU.

23

I equate the Captain Marvel movie more with Ant Man or Dr. Strange.  She is a virtual nobody to mass audiences but moviegoers have learned to expect anything in the MCU to be of a certain level of quality, giving it a kind of cushioning that other movies in general would not have.
I don't think the hate for her character was recent.  A lot of people still associate her with her less than noble actions during and after the first Marvel Civil War.  It is more like it has intensified due to the recent events and Marvel's marketing backfiring.  That she is being made one of the main faces of Marvel's less than well received changes in the comics does not help.

24

DC rebirth threw the majority of Wonder Womans feminist politics from the New52 and the DCYOU out the window (with few exceptions).

25

DC girls are great outside of comics actually. I always felt marvel had the better minority characters and DC had the better female characters.

26

Interesting point on the heavy hitter part.  Perhaps they are looking to phase out Thor and Hulk for a while and need a replacement tank character for the time being.

27

I think you replied to the wrong person.

28

Sorry but I seriously doubt everything you just said. I would have believed Flash and GL but Batman heck no. What are your sources?

29

They could have done it like the comics while still making it her story, about getting her origins from Mar-Vell. Marvell could be a supporting character, and he could die or get hurt and in doing so give Carol her powers.
But of course, if they did that it would be a female character needing to 'inherit' her powers from a man. Which Hollywood doesn't like at all, just look at them making Ghostbusters a hard reboot instead of a continuation of the first two movies because they didn't want the female characters to 'inherit' anything from the men.

30

Sales definitely backs up that assumption.  Harley Quinn, Wonder Woman, Supergirl and Batgirl has consistently outsold all of Marvel's women except Jessica Jones.

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