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Forum Oi! → Cinema & TV → Very positive response to 'Wonder Woman' overall, full reviews will arrive once embargo lifts

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Posts: 13

1

I'm cautiously optimistic that the critical reaction will actually be decent for JL, Zack set out to have the pendulum swing back in the other direction from BvS for Justice League. This tension was set up in BvS by questioning whether superhero mythology can really work in the real world.
In a WSJ article prior to BvS' release Zack Snyder stated that he was using the same approach to superhero mythology he had done in Watchmen to Superman and Batman, and referred to Bvs as "the impossible version of Watchmen."
Snyder has noted in interviews that the ending of Watchmen imparts a feeling of hollowness about superhero mythology. Zack states on the one hand that he feels the need to put superheroes in the real world. But he also states very clearly that he still wants us to love them. (He describes Superman as representative of all superhero mythology itself in outlining this.) So that is what he means by "impossible Watchmen," I think. How do we place superheroes in the real world, but still get to feel about them in the way that we want to at the ideal level of innocent fantasy?
And that is I think what the MoS/BvS/JL trilogy is attempting to do. There is an arc to the development of these themes that will resolve in Justice League. And central to that story is the rebirth of Superman. I think when he is reborn he will be fully self-determining, independent, and self-confident. He will have figured out how to exist in this real world of ours. And he will flourish... because, well, he's Superman.
So if this is correct, critics that hated the dark toned deconstructionism of BvS will feel that WB "heard" their outcry and brought Snyder to heel to make a fun superhero flick.

2

Rog, I've read all of your "discussion-articles" (rather, essay analysis') since I've become a member here on Snyder and 'MoS' and 'BvS' and I deeply admire your passion on what Snyder has created (as my own is also very comparable) -- and also as a writer, I truly enjoy your introspective theories and appreciate your style. Beyond my "long-comments," I only wished I had the time to run a channel or a CB-blog of my own if I had the time.
I think what Snyder has done with Superman is both brilliant and poetic, and even though I didn't watch "Man of Steel" upon its initial release (based on me not being a fan of prior Superman films) once I saw it I was blown away and instantly fell in love. Superman's origin story, which had never been told in film before brought me right back to the nostalgic feeling "Batman Begins" gave me -- and rightfully so, as both were written by Goyer and produced by Nolan. Now, I still don't quite get how that film didn't wind up being recieved better than it did (although it's worth mentioning that many mainstream critics gave it overall approval) but overall it was viewed as a success obviously as they used it to continue to build on the DCEU.
I certainly think that "Justice League" will be a success, however I also know that there will still be plenty of detractors regardless (I truly hope I'm wrong when I say this). It'll be very interesting to see how they wind up bringing Superman back as well. So long as people don't feel as if Snyder "deconstructs" any of the other JL members (which I doubt would be the case), it should also make progress for next year's "Aquaman" -- another DCEU outing I'm dying to see.

3

Okay... why let people see it and then put an embargo on their talking about it? There must be a logic behind this.

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But you're assuming that there will be backlash because of Snyder, as opposed to what he puts up on the screen.
I am relatively certain (or perhaps too optimistic for my own good) that if WW is good and JL is good and Aquaman is good... it won't matter who is at the helm for any of them.
I think there's a creepy-odd rift between DC and Marvel readers, but deeper than that is a love of comics and superheroes, and there's nothing more than either side wants than to have quality movies that bring in dollars so that they keep getting made.

5

"I think when he is reborn he will be fully self-determining, independent, and self-confident."
I'm not sure if it's a matter of keeping the films going, or getting the character back to its 'roots', or pleasing fans... but I think this HAS to happen. Superman can't come back and be as he was in his first two films.
I mean... this is a reboot at the very start of their franchise. This is the best/only time to truly course-correct what missteps have been made.

6

It dawns on me that I simply must-must-must make this happen for my wife. She's getting so excited, and I'm a husband-failure if I don't make sure she enjoys this day.

7

There's no way people tweet this sort of stuff without glowing reviews.

8

Although the posts don't say much, there is a sense of excitement in the way they are written. I don't think i'm wrong in saying this,  but i think patty Jensen and Wonder Woman might of saved the DC from a critical beating, which might of sent the Dceu into limbo. We can't take another beating like we've already taking, especially before Snyder's next slot in November.
Although you will still get the few Douchebags  trying to spread bad vibes.

9

You are right to have faith in Snyder, Watchmen was cut because it was to long, everyone after watching the extended cut agreed it was a great movie.
MoS was a great origin story.
BvS was again cut by WB leading to another bad fan reaction to Snyder. Snyder tells good stories and makes good movies when he has good source material. Snyder was not the problem with BvS, the problem was WB, he did not want the movie cut.
I believe the reason Snyder was not finished after BvS, was because the twats at WB know he was not the fault of BvS. The reason they are not interfering  with the JL running time is because they know Snyder's original BvS cut, got a much better reaction compared to their cut version. They know it was their interference that caused so much hate toward Snyder. Sure the douche bad at collider gave the theatrical a 6.5 but gave the ultimate cut an 8.2.
That is a big difference. Snyder is the man.

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If the reviews or posts from these don't go to good, the bad vibe seed has time to grow the more time it has. If it's lifted closer to the movie, it might not harm it to much if its not received well.
That's what i'm thinking anyways.

11

Wait... you have no doubt he won't deliver?
I mean, there is ALWAYS backlash, but a lot of it is founded in Snyder's choices as a filmmaker. I think if he changes his style (bad idea), or changes course (which is very doable with a re-birthing Supes), or has a new production team on board (best option!) then the backlash will subside. You'll always have haters, but the response to them is putting out a good product and let them look like fools for hating something universally loved.   yikes)
I really think the love of superheroes and comics will trump the majority of the anti-Sndyer hate -- if DC plays its cards right.

12

Yeah, I'm sure you're right... although it might work the other way around: if your movie is great, and you can build a lot of buzz -- especially this sort of film -- why not pounce?
What's weird about this particular flick is that I'm getting a great vibe, and it seems they should blow the lid off of it.

13

Yeah your dead right, i get the same vibes. Although they don't say much in their posts, there is still a feel of excitement in how they write it. To lifting the embargo, i don't think they would take the chance with it. People would be excited to see it anyways, so it would be a gamble that could cost them, some movie goers go strongly on reviews.They could be one of those who are excited to see it, then a bad vibe on the movie could change that.

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